AMS
Dear Jonathen
Thanks for making your inquiry here.
Initially, some words I wish to say so I can show you a clear answer.
We are all humans created by one God. Every human has a message to deliver to other humans so they can live peacefully and according to what God has ordered. Thats why we see thousands of Prophets were sent to the humans in order to show them the right path. But, the majority refused to obey Gods rule and were punished by God, through the prayers of the Porphet of that time (i.e. Moses, and Phauron of Egypt). Just before Islam, Jesus was amonsgt the prophets to deliver the Gods message and rules to the humanity. Hence, he was ignored and only few people followed him. Then the enemies chased him in order to kill him, but the almighty God, took him up to the skies and still alive. Therefore, his message was not completely reached all the humans and even bible that we see today, is not the real bible that was revealed by God to Jesus as well as Moses holy book.
Therefore, God sent the final and last ever Prophet (MUHAMMAD) to the humanity by revealing the final and complete and correct version of Gods religion which will never be changed or demolished as happened with Jesus and Moses.
When people followed Islam, similar situations happened to this religion, but with many sacrifies of the Prophets household and some great Muslim scholars, the religion of Islam kept its purity and completion, through the Holy Quran and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.
This is the Gods promise in Quran which states "if all the creations gathered to write a holy book (Quran), they would fail todo so"
Therefore, this noble religion as God promised, will grow and spread and one day will all be living in peace, under the flag of the real Gods religion.
To answer to your questions, first lets ask our selves, why do we or others, have to go to ####?
The #### and Heaven are the rest place of two types of people; 1 who do not follow Gods rules and perfom sins and oppressions, 2 is the visa versa, whoever follows Gods commands and do whatever being said, then they are taken to the Heaven.
Now Do Christians and Jews go to ####? Well if they follow what Moses and Jesus said fully, then they would go to heaven, as the history evidence of those few followers of Jesus in his time, whom where mention in Quran. Also Jesus said to his followers that "a Prophet will come after me called Ahmed (which is another name of Prophet Muhammad)", therefore, if todays Christines and Jews, follow what Jesus said, then why not, but the majority went half the way and left Prophet Muhammad. Therefore, they did an inconsistent job which will lead them to ####.
That does not mean that whoever becomes Muslims, goes to heaven!! The holy quran says"if whoever does not rule/judge by what God has revealed, then they are UNBELIEVERS".
So if a Muslim kills innocent people, can easily become an unbeleiver according to the text of Quran. Therefore, Yes Muslims are also in a very serious danger of going to #### if they do not follow what God has said as well as his Prophets.
Therefore I call all Christines and Jews to open their mind and think carefully about the Truth and the Righteous Path.
Thank you and God bless you.
AMS
Full Version: Do Christians and Jews go to hell?
MujahidKhuluq
i guess you don't belong here, go away.
i guess you don't belong here, go away.
Mohyee Aldeen
Salam Friend,
There might have been some sort of mistake or maybe the other person iddn't mean what he said the way he said it. Please feel free to post your questions here and we would be happy to dialogue with you only if you do not mean any indirect attack of Islam.
Mohyee Aldeen
Salam Friend,
There might have been some sort of mistake or maybe the other person iddn't mean what he said the way he said it. Please feel free to post your questions here and we would be happy to dialogue with you only if you do not mean any indirect attack of Islam.
Mohyee Aldeen
MujahidKhuluq
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, I did not mean that I wouldn't assist you in answering your questions. I was simply stating that perhaps you don't belong here and should leave if you are going to have such an insulting attitude in posing your questions. You were rude from the start, and maybe you should have expected a reply in kind.
I can tell you that unbelievers will go to the Hellfire simply because Qur'an clearly states that the only religion with Allah is Islam, or Submission to the Divine Will. A Christian may live in a state of Islam, and a Jew may live in a state of Islam. A Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu etc etc might also live in a state of Islam. However, their states of Islam are to a lesser degree than that of someone who has accepted the finalization of the Book, the Qur'an, and the Seal of Prophethood, Muhammad(sal). It is not stated that "Christianity is the true religion" in even the fabricated "canonical" gospels, this is something created by Paul...who also was the first person to create the doctrine of the deification of Jesus(as) and the pagan trinity. The Torah does not say "Judaism is the true religion" either, this was later added by the Rabbinical Jews and currently Zionists in order to perpetuate a racist lie that only Hebrews are the "chose people" of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Originally all these diverse "religions" have taught a singular idea....live in Submission to the Higher Reality, and walk the Straight Path(Middle Way, Tao, Central Column etc etc). Muhammad(sal) and the Qur'an simply finalized this and spread it to all cultures.
Insha'Allah this has helped to answer your questions.
Dawud
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, I did not mean that I wouldn't assist you in answering your questions. I was simply stating that perhaps you don't belong here and should leave if you are going to have such an insulting attitude in posing your questions. You were rude from the start, and maybe you should have expected a reply in kind.
I can tell you that unbelievers will go to the Hellfire simply because Qur'an clearly states that the only religion with Allah is Islam, or Submission to the Divine Will. A Christian may live in a state of Islam, and a Jew may live in a state of Islam. A Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu etc etc might also live in a state of Islam. However, their states of Islam are to a lesser degree than that of someone who has accepted the finalization of the Book, the Qur'an, and the Seal of Prophethood, Muhammad(sal). It is not stated that "Christianity is the true religion" in even the fabricated "canonical" gospels, this is something created by Paul...who also was the first person to create the doctrine of the deification of Jesus(as) and the pagan trinity. The Torah does not say "Judaism is the true religion" either, this was later added by the Rabbinical Jews and currently Zionists in order to perpetuate a racist lie that only Hebrews are the "chose people" of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Originally all these diverse "religions" have taught a singular idea....live in Submission to the Higher Reality, and walk the Straight Path(Middle Way, Tao, Central Column etc etc). Muhammad(sal) and the Qur'an simply finalized this and spread it to all cultures.
Insha'Allah this has helped to answer your questions.
Dawud
Freedom
Dear sir,
It is very easy for you to say that no-body has ever tampered with the Koran, whereras with the they have with the Bible and the Torah.In my personal opinion, I think all three were tampered with. But I think you can believe they might not have, but you cannot give me proof. But you are free to do believe so. I just think that it's quite difficult to accept something
written long time ago. Then again, one of the reasons why the three monotheist beliefs keep existing is because people probably find values in them which have meaning for them. I also hope I don't offend by saying so this, but you should respect my point of view and give me credit for doubting the fact. The same goes for me, respecting your point of view that you could be right.
In my personal opinion, if the Hebrew god is the True god, and Abraham was one of the profets, as was Jesus, as was Mohamed, why could there not have been other ones. I cannot give any names, because I don't know, but could there not have been some other ones ? I don't know whether Jesus was the son of God, but he could have been . According to you faith he was not
, but according to Christian teachings, he came to free
mankind of their sins, God becoming flesh. It it true ?
I don't know, but it could be True.
All i am trying to do, is being truthful to myself and to God (if he exists). I came to existence in this time, where there is such a difference and multitude of life-philosiphies and relgions, ( I actually was
brought up in one of these three monotheistic faiths,
but I have distanced myself from it because )
I think that one religion cannot be the true one. They could all contain traces of the Truth, similar paths towards to Truth, but none of them cannot be a 100%. I know it's not good to put a numerical value on a faith, but I don't know how elso to do. I just assume the Truth to be a 100%...true.
As for you, you always seem to defend your faith, which is your perfect right to do so. But just asking you to question what you have been tought.
Now you seem to take up the aggressive tone again "I think you are so firm in your atheistic/agnostic thoughts and faith that you're trying to shake the faith of those who are on the correct path...you're attempting to pray on the weaker of our people."
First of all, i'm NOT an atheist, because that is a relgion on it's own, and I have never said I do not believe in a Higher Being. I think you should take that back. Agnostic, defenitly. Sincerely, I hope there is a God, a Higher Being, but I do not know. I have tried to pray, in various forms, but I don't still don't know.
My trying to shake to faith of who are on correct path
, well, i'm just talking to you, nobody else. Our conversation is about the truthfulness of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. This issue was brought up by somebody of 'your' faith, inquiring about people from different faiths, so if they read this, I think it is not my intention to shake them or their faith or to pray ( or did you mean prey ?!?) on the weaker of your people. You see this is exactly what i mean, when you say 'our people' , isn't everybody people ? Isn't everybody a a child of God ? If that is so, than there is no 'our people'. I think that the religious institutions should seek to unite their views, so it ends up being one people , one god, but not superimposing one's view of faith upon others, especially by force.
Freedom
Dear sir,
It is very easy for you to say that no-body has ever tampered with the Koran, whereras with the they have with the Bible and the Torah.In my personal opinion, I think all three were tampered with. But I think you can believe they might not have, but you cannot give me proof. But you are free to do believe so. I just think that it's quite difficult to accept something
written long time ago. Then again, one of the reasons why the three monotheist beliefs keep existing is because people probably find values in them which have meaning for them. I also hope I don't offend by saying so this, but you should respect my point of view and give me credit for doubting the fact. The same goes for me, respecting your point of view that you could be right.
In my personal opinion, if the Hebrew god is the True god, and Abraham was one of the profets, as was Jesus, as was Mohamed, why could there not have been other ones. I cannot give any names, because I don't know, but could there not have been some other ones ? I don't know whether Jesus was the son of God, but he could have been . According to you faith he was not
, but according to Christian teachings, he came to free
mankind of their sins, God becoming flesh. It it true ?
I don't know, but it could be True.
All i am trying to do, is being truthful to myself and to God (if he exists). I came to existence in this time, where there is such a difference and multitude of life-philosiphies and relgions, ( I actually was
brought up in one of these three monotheistic faiths,
but I have distanced myself from it because )
I think that one religion cannot be the true one. They could all contain traces of the Truth, similar paths towards to Truth, but none of them cannot be a 100%. I know it's not good to put a numerical value on a faith, but I don't know how elso to do. I just assume the Truth to be a 100%...true.
As for you, you always seem to defend your faith, which is your perfect right to do so. But just asking you to question what you have been tought.
Now you seem to take up the aggressive tone again "I think you are so firm in your atheistic/agnostic thoughts and faith that you're trying to shake the faith of those who are on the correct path...you're attempting to pray on the weaker of our people."
First of all, i'm NOT an atheist, because that is a relgion on it's own, and I have never said I do not believe in a Higher Being. I think you should take that back. Agnostic, defenitly. Sincerely, I hope there is a God, a Higher Being, but I do not know. I have tried to pray, in various forms, but I don't still don't know.
My trying to shake to faith of who are on correct path
, well, i'm just talking to you, nobody else. Our conversation is about the truthfulness of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. This issue was brought up by somebody of 'your' faith, inquiring about people from different faiths, so if they read this, I think it is not my intention to shake them or their faith or to pray ( or did you mean prey ?!?) on the weaker of your people. You see this is exactly what i mean, when you say 'our people' , isn't everybody people ? Isn't everybody a a child of God ? If that is so, than there is no 'our people'. I think that the religious institutions should seek to unite their views, so it ends up being one people , one god, but not superimposing one's view of faith upon others, especially by force.
Freedom
MujahidKhuluq
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, the point remains that you can doubt a book with letters all you want, the spirit of the Qur'an always will be intact, as will the original Arabic of the Qur'an. However, I wouldn't disagree with you if you were to say that someone had tampered with Qur'an while translating it...for most surely Medival Christians did this, and the Wahabis still add their own twisted interpretations in their translated Qur'ans(the Noble Qur'an)....such as women being required to cover up their entire body including at least half of one eye. The fact remains, the Qur'an that was first written down and compiled has not be tampered with since, and it remains intact today. However, we do have documentation stating that the Torah was tampered with by the Rabbinical orders long before even the coming of Jesus(as). This is contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library, and even by admission of many ancient Hebrews. One of the Prophets of the Hebrews actually accuses the Rabbis of altering the Scripture. As for Christian texts that were adulterated since being penned...we know this is true too by virtue of post-Jesus(as) texts from Qumran community and the Nag Hammadi library, and by the documentation of massive burnings of scriptures shortly after the Council of Nicea was convened and decided on what was "canon" and what was "heretical." We also have the fact that Paul told Christians they didn't have to follow the Laws of Torah, where as it is even recorded in the perverse "canonical" scriptures that Jesus(as) said he didn't come to change one letter of the Law and that it should be followed! All of this is well documented. Qur'an confirms this, even though Muhammad(sal) would not have possibly had knowledge of this had he not been told so by Allah subhana wa ta'ala Yet there remains no documentation that Qur'an has been altered from it's original Arabic form!
You are asking me to question my Faith in the Din al-Haqq? There is no need for that. I spent 10 years out of 22 years on this Earth questioning every belief I ever had. I was raised in a moderately Christian home, though it was more agnostic. This is the way I remained for a long long time. However, I experienced some major heartache and destruction of my entire world view and it opened my eyes. My coccoon was broken and I saw the Reality, and I began forming my "own" religion...or so I thought. My "own" morality, etc etc. Then 2 years ago I was exposed to Islam, and so I bought a Qur'an translation, and read. What was contained within the Qur'an was exactly what consisted of the "religion" and "morality" I had constructed for myself. As I got more and more understanding I understood that the reason for this is because Islam is the fitrah of Hu-manity. And if we were left to come to our own conclusions naturally, this is exactly what we would come up with. We would naturally do what is Islamic. The only things I didn't have were 4 of the 5 pillars. I didn't know the salat, pay zakat, do Hajj, or fast during Ramadhan. I had the belief in the One True God. I was a hanif with a very loose structure. I have known many people like this in my life. These people have also become Muslims because upon reading Qur'an they realized it was the fitrah, the Natural state of Hu-manity. I spent years looking into the various world religions. Never accepted Christianity because it was just too unnatural. Judaism was exactly the same, only with psuedo-racist overtones, Buddhism was too ascetic, Taoism, in trying to imitate the formless Tao, lacked definition and structure, Hindu belief in the pantheon of "gods" was just too rediculous and on and on it went, then came Islam. It fit perfectly after I had destroyed all preconceived notions of anything and had no world view left to hold onto except what I knew to be right in my heart, which was Islam! Don't ask me to question the very thing which I've always felt right in my heart and KNOW to be the Natural state of Hu-mankind.
Perhaps you are at the level of questioning everything and your entire worldview will be deconstructed by some traumatic event you might experience, and you will develop your "own" religion and morality, once that happens give the Qur'an a read again...you'll be amazed.
Dawud
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, the point remains that you can doubt a book with letters all you want, the spirit of the Qur'an always will be intact, as will the original Arabic of the Qur'an. However, I wouldn't disagree with you if you were to say that someone had tampered with Qur'an while translating it...for most surely Medival Christians did this, and the Wahabis still add their own twisted interpretations in their translated Qur'ans(the Noble Qur'an)....such as women being required to cover up their entire body including at least half of one eye. The fact remains, the Qur'an that was first written down and compiled has not be tampered with since, and it remains intact today. However, we do have documentation stating that the Torah was tampered with by the Rabbinical orders long before even the coming of Jesus(as). This is contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library, and even by admission of many ancient Hebrews. One of the Prophets of the Hebrews actually accuses the Rabbis of altering the Scripture. As for Christian texts that were adulterated since being penned...we know this is true too by virtue of post-Jesus(as) texts from Qumran community and the Nag Hammadi library, and by the documentation of massive burnings of scriptures shortly after the Council of Nicea was convened and decided on what was "canon" and what was "heretical." We also have the fact that Paul told Christians they didn't have to follow the Laws of Torah, where as it is even recorded in the perverse "canonical" scriptures that Jesus(as) said he didn't come to change one letter of the Law and that it should be followed! All of this is well documented. Qur'an confirms this, even though Muhammad(sal) would not have possibly had knowledge of this had he not been told so by Allah subhana wa ta'ala Yet there remains no documentation that Qur'an has been altered from it's original Arabic form!
You are asking me to question my Faith in the Din al-Haqq? There is no need for that. I spent 10 years out of 22 years on this Earth questioning every belief I ever had. I was raised in a moderately Christian home, though it was more agnostic. This is the way I remained for a long long time. However, I experienced some major heartache and destruction of my entire world view and it opened my eyes. My coccoon was broken and I saw the Reality, and I began forming my "own" religion...or so I thought. My "own" morality, etc etc. Then 2 years ago I was exposed to Islam, and so I bought a Qur'an translation, and read. What was contained within the Qur'an was exactly what consisted of the "religion" and "morality" I had constructed for myself. As I got more and more understanding I understood that the reason for this is because Islam is the fitrah of Hu-manity. And if we were left to come to our own conclusions naturally, this is exactly what we would come up with. We would naturally do what is Islamic. The only things I didn't have were 4 of the 5 pillars. I didn't know the salat, pay zakat, do Hajj, or fast during Ramadhan. I had the belief in the One True God. I was a hanif with a very loose structure. I have known many people like this in my life. These people have also become Muslims because upon reading Qur'an they realized it was the fitrah, the Natural state of Hu-manity. I spent years looking into the various world religions. Never accepted Christianity because it was just too unnatural. Judaism was exactly the same, only with psuedo-racist overtones, Buddhism was too ascetic, Taoism, in trying to imitate the formless Tao, lacked definition and structure, Hindu belief in the pantheon of "gods" was just too rediculous and on and on it went, then came Islam. It fit perfectly after I had destroyed all preconceived notions of anything and had no world view left to hold onto except what I knew to be right in my heart, which was Islam! Don't ask me to question the very thing which I've always felt right in my heart and KNOW to be the Natural state of Hu-mankind.
Perhaps you are at the level of questioning everything and your entire worldview will be deconstructed by some traumatic event you might experience, and you will develop your "own" religion and morality, once that happens give the Qur'an a read again...you'll be amazed.
Dawud
MujahidKhuluq
Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, your "muslim" friends who drank beer and ate pork were not Muslims. Being a Muslim means "one who Submits to the Will of Allah" and Allah subhana wa ta'ala has forbidden intoxicants and pork(among other things) so these friends and "girlfriend" you speak of were not actually Muslims. Their parents may have been, and they may have called themselves "muslims" but they weren't practicing the Din. Your "girlfriend" was also not Muslim because she was dating, which is forbidden in Islam, and because she was interested in a person that she could have possibly married that was not Muslim...this is also forbidden in Islam by Allah. In short, those people were not Muslims. What of those people? They clearly are violating the Law, and therefore this is punishment for them. Allah is the Most Merciful, however, and if Hu desires they may be forgiven...Allahu Alim.
I've not been telling you personal opinions about Islam at all. I am simply stating to you what Allah has told Hu-manity concerning this issue. Allah has told us that Islam is the only din, or Way of Life, with Allah. We must live in Submission to the Divine Will, or we will have no Peace in this life or in the Hereafter...this is what Allah has told us. What I have told you concerning the fitrah of Hu-manity and it's being Islam is also Truth. This is what Allah has told us, and what Hu's Messenger, Muhammad(sal), has told us. This is what all Prophets have said before as well. Buddha(as), Jesus(as), Moses(as), Abraham(as), Noah(as), Lao Tzu(as), Confucious(as)...of them and all the others from the 124,000 prophets(peace be upon them all) have told us that the fitrah of Hu-mankind is Submission to the Higher Reality. In fact, whether you recognize it or not...you are always in an inferior/involuntary state of Submission to Allah subhana wa ta'ala, always.
Intellectually you are in rebellion, but you never consider...what causes you to eat, breath, sleep, use the bathroom, have sexual desire...or for that matter...what drives you to question the validity of the "religions" and search for the Truth. Allah drives you to search for the Truth, Hu wants you to willingly Submit to Hu even though you have no real choice in the matter. You attempt to rebel, and there are natural consequences for such rebellion. You never wonder what drives the Universe to act in the way it does, or what causes the Sun to revolve around the center of this galaxy, or this galaxy around the center of the Universe, or what causes the planets to revolve around the sun and the moon around the earth and for life to only exist on this planet out of the 9 others in the solar system. You never wonder what caused the particular combination of amino acids that make up life to combine against incredibly impossible odds.
Your world view isn't quite deconstructed. When I went through the stages you are experiencing now, I got to a point where I decided that I knew what was right...and that I'd fight for that...even if no one else would. I'd take the wisdom of the teachers that "religions" grew around, but I'd never associate myself with the "religion" itself...because I thought that all of them were man-made and were therefore nothing but misleading interpretations of the wisdom of the original teachers, the Prophets(peace be upon them). And, as I said, I then picked up the Qur'an...and read...and it was all exactly the same as my heart. Why? Islam is not a man-made religion. It was not constructed by people interpretting the teachings of Muhammad(sal) and taking them out of context...though some have done that...Islam was always based upon a Book that was revealed through a man who's words weren't as eloquent as the words of the Book...a man who was not highly educated. It was a Book that echoed the teachings of many past Prophets, and expounded on them, laid forth the Law, and told stories of Prophets that had never been heard before. It was also a Book that spoke straight to the reader's heart, where as you can read the bible and all it does is sound like an elaborate story...a really long myth. Qur'an penetrates the heart when read, even read in an english translation the Qur'an peirces the heart. In Arabic the Qur'an annihilates the reader into his fitrah state and returns his attention to the Divine Being. It is truly beautiful.
Buddhism can be a form of Islam. The Buddhists hold the Divine Reality to be a mystery. So do the Muslims. However, we can make some statements about Allah that are True and are not complete mysteries...for Allah has told us things about Hu's Self, and about what Hu does. We can never know the Essence of Allah, or minds cannot comprehend that...and this is what the Buddhists recognize. This does not make it more valid than Islam, in fact, to be an initiated Buddhists you have to seperate yourself from the material world...yet the material world is something that Allah made so that we may come to have some knowledge of Hu through it. Islam strikes a balance between the spiritual life and the material life. Asceticism was practiced at night by Muhammad(sal) and his Companions, but during the day they did the same things that you and I do...work. You say that Buddhism doesn't get involved in the sex lives of the adherants...how can you say this? Do you know anything about Buddhism? Gautama Buddha(as) spoke very much about right sexual conduct and not getting involved in illicit sex...this included adultery, fornication, homosexuality and any other form of sexuality that is a perversion of the fitrah state of Hu-man sexuality. Beyond that, Buddhist monks are required to take a vow of celibacy! If this isn't a case of a religion getting involved in the sex lives of it's adherants I don't know what is! Islam forbids celibacy! Why? Because Hu-mankind has a need for the balancing energies shared between man and woman. The Chinese form of Islam, Taoism, taught this as well. However, Taoism was never as balanced as it's aims were...it became very ascetic, which is why at the same time as the advent of Lao Tzu's(as) teaching of spiritual conduct, Confucious(as) was teaching morality and social conduct. They were aimed at keeping the balance of Islam. This didn't happen because most people were not able to comprehend the balance between the two, they only saw division. Many so-called Taoists and Confucians are this very same way today! Taoists were very keen on sexual arts, they knew that homosexual practices harmed people physically and mentally, as did otehr perversions of Hu-man sexuality. However, many of the more elite ruling class Taoists were misguided and engaged in adultery and fornication.
All the worlds "religions" have something to say about Hu-man sexuality. However, none have found the balance with the fitrah of Hu-man sexuality. Taoists will still go to extreme sexual freedom, while Christians will go to an extreme sexual repression. Islam holds that society functions better as sexuality is kept veiled from public life, and indulged in between husband and wife behind closed doors. This is true, societies have tended to break down as sexuality has become uncontrolled. But the point is, Buddhism has become somewhat of a trend in the West because of it's lack of statement about the Divine Reality...and so many see it has having no Divine Reality and go to it because they want to reject the Western concept of Divinity. They still lack the balance that Islam has struck with regards to the Divine Reality. The fact still remains, Islam is the only din that is in harmony with the fitrah of the Hu-man being. One may be in the state of harmony with the fitrah and involved in Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, or any other religion and be granted Paradise simply because you are not rebelling against the Divine Will...however, if one is in a state of rebellion against the Divine Will and involved in the aformentioned religions one will be given Hellfire. This is the same for atheists. And if someone who has proclaimed that they are a Muslim is in rebellion against the Divine Will they too will recieve Hellfire, unless they repent to Allah.
The fitrah is an involuntary state of Submission(islam), and is not a Self-Submission which is what the aims of Qur'an and the life and mission of Muhammad(sal) were to teach. Being in harmony with fitrah wouldn't have you in rebellion against the decrees of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Insha'Allah this is helping to shed Light on this subject for you.
Dawud
Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim
As salaam alaikum,
Freedom, your "muslim" friends who drank beer and ate pork were not Muslims. Being a Muslim means "one who Submits to the Will of Allah" and Allah subhana wa ta'ala has forbidden intoxicants and pork(among other things) so these friends and "girlfriend" you speak of were not actually Muslims. Their parents may have been, and they may have called themselves "muslims" but they weren't practicing the Din. Your "girlfriend" was also not Muslim because she was dating, which is forbidden in Islam, and because she was interested in a person that she could have possibly married that was not Muslim...this is also forbidden in Islam by Allah. In short, those people were not Muslims. What of those people? They clearly are violating the Law, and therefore this is punishment for them. Allah is the Most Merciful, however, and if Hu desires they may be forgiven...Allahu Alim.
I've not been telling you personal opinions about Islam at all. I am simply stating to you what Allah has told Hu-manity concerning this issue. Allah has told us that Islam is the only din, or Way of Life, with Allah. We must live in Submission to the Divine Will, or we will have no Peace in this life or in the Hereafter...this is what Allah has told us. What I have told you concerning the fitrah of Hu-manity and it's being Islam is also Truth. This is what Allah has told us, and what Hu's Messenger, Muhammad(sal), has told us. This is what all Prophets have said before as well. Buddha(as), Jesus(as), Moses(as), Abraham(as), Noah(as), Lao Tzu(as), Confucious(as)...of them and all the others from the 124,000 prophets(peace be upon them all) have told us that the fitrah of Hu-mankind is Submission to the Higher Reality. In fact, whether you recognize it or not...you are always in an inferior/involuntary state of Submission to Allah subhana wa ta'ala, always.
Intellectually you are in rebellion, but you never consider...what causes you to eat, breath, sleep, use the bathroom, have sexual desire...or for that matter...what drives you to question the validity of the "religions" and search for the Truth. Allah drives you to search for the Truth, Hu wants you to willingly Submit to Hu even though you have no real choice in the matter. You attempt to rebel, and there are natural consequences for such rebellion. You never wonder what drives the Universe to act in the way it does, or what causes the Sun to revolve around the center of this galaxy, or this galaxy around the center of the Universe, or what causes the planets to revolve around the sun and the moon around the earth and for life to only exist on this planet out of the 9 others in the solar system. You never wonder what caused the particular combination of amino acids that make up life to combine against incredibly impossible odds.
Your world view isn't quite deconstructed. When I went through the stages you are experiencing now, I got to a point where I decided that I knew what was right...and that I'd fight for that...even if no one else would. I'd take the wisdom of the teachers that "religions" grew around, but I'd never associate myself with the "religion" itself...because I thought that all of them were man-made and were therefore nothing but misleading interpretations of the wisdom of the original teachers, the Prophets(peace be upon them). And, as I said, I then picked up the Qur'an...and read...and it was all exactly the same as my heart. Why? Islam is not a man-made religion. It was not constructed by people interpretting the teachings of Muhammad(sal) and taking them out of context...though some have done that...Islam was always based upon a Book that was revealed through a man who's words weren't as eloquent as the words of the Book...a man who was not highly educated. It was a Book that echoed the teachings of many past Prophets, and expounded on them, laid forth the Law, and told stories of Prophets that had never been heard before. It was also a Book that spoke straight to the reader's heart, where as you can read the bible and all it does is sound like an elaborate story...a really long myth. Qur'an penetrates the heart when read, even read in an english translation the Qur'an peirces the heart. In Arabic the Qur'an annihilates the reader into his fitrah state and returns his attention to the Divine Being. It is truly beautiful.
Buddhism can be a form of Islam. The Buddhists hold the Divine Reality to be a mystery. So do the Muslims. However, we can make some statements about Allah that are True and are not complete mysteries...for Allah has told us things about Hu's Self, and about what Hu does. We can never know the Essence of Allah, or minds cannot comprehend that...and this is what the Buddhists recognize. This does not make it more valid than Islam, in fact, to be an initiated Buddhists you have to seperate yourself from the material world...yet the material world is something that Allah made so that we may come to have some knowledge of Hu through it. Islam strikes a balance between the spiritual life and the material life. Asceticism was practiced at night by Muhammad(sal) and his Companions, but during the day they did the same things that you and I do...work. You say that Buddhism doesn't get involved in the sex lives of the adherants...how can you say this? Do you know anything about Buddhism? Gautama Buddha(as) spoke very much about right sexual conduct and not getting involved in illicit sex...this included adultery, fornication, homosexuality and any other form of sexuality that is a perversion of the fitrah state of Hu-man sexuality. Beyond that, Buddhist monks are required to take a vow of celibacy! If this isn't a case of a religion getting involved in the sex lives of it's adherants I don't know what is! Islam forbids celibacy! Why? Because Hu-mankind has a need for the balancing energies shared between man and woman. The Chinese form of Islam, Taoism, taught this as well. However, Taoism was never as balanced as it's aims were...it became very ascetic, which is why at the same time as the advent of Lao Tzu's(as) teaching of spiritual conduct, Confucious(as) was teaching morality and social conduct. They were aimed at keeping the balance of Islam. This didn't happen because most people were not able to comprehend the balance between the two, they only saw division. Many so-called Taoists and Confucians are this very same way today! Taoists were very keen on sexual arts, they knew that homosexual practices harmed people physically and mentally, as did otehr perversions of Hu-man sexuality. However, many of the more elite ruling class Taoists were misguided and engaged in adultery and fornication.
All the worlds "religions" have something to say about Hu-man sexuality. However, none have found the balance with the fitrah of Hu-man sexuality. Taoists will still go to extreme sexual freedom, while Christians will go to an extreme sexual repression. Islam holds that society functions better as sexuality is kept veiled from public life, and indulged in between husband and wife behind closed doors. This is true, societies have tended to break down as sexuality has become uncontrolled. But the point is, Buddhism has become somewhat of a trend in the West because of it's lack of statement about the Divine Reality...and so many see it has having no Divine Reality and go to it because they want to reject the Western concept of Divinity. They still lack the balance that Islam has struck with regards to the Divine Reality. The fact still remains, Islam is the only din that is in harmony with the fitrah of the Hu-man being. One may be in the state of harmony with the fitrah and involved in Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, or any other religion and be granted Paradise simply because you are not rebelling against the Divine Will...however, if one is in a state of rebellion against the Divine Will and involved in the aformentioned religions one will be given Hellfire. This is the same for atheists. And if someone who has proclaimed that they are a Muslim is in rebellion against the Divine Will they too will recieve Hellfire, unless they repent to Allah.
The fitrah is an involuntary state of Submission(islam), and is not a Self-Submission which is what the aims of Qur'an and the life and mission of Muhammad(sal) were to teach. Being in harmony with fitrah wouldn't have you in rebellion against the decrees of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Insha'Allah this is helping to shed Light on this subject for you.
Dawud
Freedom
Look what i found now, the jewish version, the previous one was christian...
Gehenna is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes translated as "####", but Jews must take note that the Christian version of #### is different from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Some Christians believe that #### is an abode of eternal torment where sinners go, and is also for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their messiah and G-d. Other Christians believe #### is a place of separation from G-d (which, for Christians, is torture enough), from which believers are eventually saved by Jesus. Roman Catholics believe that #### is a place of eternal suffering—physical, mental and spiritual suffering. In the Roman Catholic view of ####, the physical pain is constant and severe; but the worst torture of #### is the knowledge that they will never see G-d and that they will remain in #### for eternity. For Roman Catholics, #### is permanent and eternal. For Roman Catholics, the soul that has deliberately and knowingly disobeyed G-d's commandments in life and that remains in a state of mortal sin upon death has through it's own free will damned itself to #### for all eternity. Roman Catholics also have the notion of Purgatory, which is for souls that are truly repentant, but not in the state of grace upon death. Purgatory is similar to #### in that there is physical suffering, the Roman Catholic belief is that the soul will return to G-d when it is purged of its sins. Purgatory can last a day or thousands of years depending on the amount of purging the individual soul requires.
However, for Jews, gehenna—while certainly a terribly unpleasant place—is not ####. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in #### forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where all imperfections are purged. [In this sense, it is somewhat similar to the Roman Catholic purgatory, however the time period has a definate maximum]. Gehennom (lit: the valley of Hinnom, in Jerusalem; i.e. ####) is the sinner's experience in the afterlife. In other words, it's the same "place" as gan eiden (lit: the garden of Eden; i.e. heaven) — it's the perspective of the individual that makes it one or the other.
Look what i found now, the jewish version, the previous one was christian...
Gehenna is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes translated as "####", but Jews must take note that the Christian version of #### is different from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Some Christians believe that #### is an abode of eternal torment where sinners go, and is also for anyone who does not accept Jesus as their messiah and G-d. Other Christians believe #### is a place of separation from G-d (which, for Christians, is torture enough), from which believers are eventually saved by Jesus. Roman Catholics believe that #### is a place of eternal suffering—physical, mental and spiritual suffering. In the Roman Catholic view of ####, the physical pain is constant and severe; but the worst torture of #### is the knowledge that they will never see G-d and that they will remain in #### for eternity. For Roman Catholics, #### is permanent and eternal. For Roman Catholics, the soul that has deliberately and knowingly disobeyed G-d's commandments in life and that remains in a state of mortal sin upon death has through it's own free will damned itself to #### for all eternity. Roman Catholics also have the notion of Purgatory, which is for souls that are truly repentant, but not in the state of grace upon death. Purgatory is similar to #### in that there is physical suffering, the Roman Catholic belief is that the soul will return to G-d when it is purged of its sins. Purgatory can last a day or thousands of years depending on the amount of purging the individual soul requires.
However, for Jews, gehenna—while certainly a terribly unpleasant place—is not ####. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in #### forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where all imperfections are purged. [In this sense, it is somewhat similar to the Roman Catholic purgatory, however the time period has a definate maximum]. Gehennom (lit: the valley of Hinnom, in Jerusalem; i.e. ####) is the sinner's experience in the afterlife. In other words, it's the same "place" as gan eiden (lit: the garden of Eden; i.e. heaven) — it's the perspective of the individual that makes it one or the other.
Freedom
This morning, as I was walking towards Univeristy, this bloke walks up to me, and asks whether I am a friend of Jesus ? He is a nutter, in my opinion, who is just outside college preaching us about how we have to be friends of Jesus and accept to love of christ, and god and blablabla. This morning he walks next to me asking all the questions he usually shoots at the people walking around. One detail I must include. There is a Mormon church right opposite college, and I do not know whether he is member of this church. Anyway, he seems to be as convinced as you about his faith. Although I do think you are more rational than he is. You defend you faith, he will defend his faith and what do we get...the us and the them. Us the rightious, them the sinner, or unbelievers. We are right and you are wrong. He also keeps on going on about ####, how if you don't make peace with God you go to ####. You claim that those who do not follow the path of Mohamed will go to #### as well.
Who is right ? Personally I don't really care, but I do care about the fact by preaching about the us and the them, you set people up against one another, or make people dispise the others and that does bother me.
Now, in those previous posts i put in about ####, shows how the concept of #### is a bit vague and ambiguous. You must recognize the fact that it is 'doubtable' whether there is #### in the first place. Secondly, who goes to #### is also a difficult question. Jews don't go to #### because don't believe in ####. This may be due to the fact that it was a tribal religion. Similar to the native americans who would join their brothers in the afterlife. When you die, you go to 'your' people. As you can see from the abstracts, #### was a physical place, somewhere in the middle east, where for the jews, the 'others' were worshipping their god which was prohibited by the jews. Then the christian version came, similar to the muslim one i assume, and #### became a place for sinners. For christians all those who did not follow jesus , ####. For muslims, all who those who do not follow the way of Mohamed, ####. There seems to be a bit a of problem. Both are talking about a place which might not even exist, or did exist but in the Here and Now, not in the afterlife.
I my personal opinion, if there is such a thing as ####, I think only truly evil people go there, people who knowingly and intentionly harm other without repent, and not being conditioned by some trauma from the past.
I think most people who have a bit of good in them, will go to heaven, might have some time 'in between' solving the unsolved,but eventually go to heaven.
One thing would put in favour of the Katholic church, because they recognize other religions, not saying that are as good as theirs, but they do believe that they will also go to heaven in they are 'good' people.
What do you say ?
Freedom
This morning, as I was walking towards Univeristy, this bloke walks up to me, and asks whether I am a friend of Jesus ? He is a nutter, in my opinion, who is just outside college preaching us about how we have to be friends of Jesus and accept to love of christ, and god and blablabla. This morning he walks next to me asking all the questions he usually shoots at the people walking around. One detail I must include. There is a Mormon church right opposite college, and I do not know whether he is member of this church. Anyway, he seems to be as convinced as you about his faith. Although I do think you are more rational than he is. You defend you faith, he will defend his faith and what do we get...the us and the them. Us the rightious, them the sinner, or unbelievers. We are right and you are wrong. He also keeps on going on about ####, how if you don't make peace with God you go to ####. You claim that those who do not follow the path of Mohamed will go to #### as well.
Who is right ? Personally I don't really care, but I do care about the fact by preaching about the us and the them, you set people up against one another, or make people dispise the others and that does bother me.
Now, in those previous posts i put in about ####, shows how the concept of #### is a bit vague and ambiguous. You must recognize the fact that it is 'doubtable' whether there is #### in the first place. Secondly, who goes to #### is also a difficult question. Jews don't go to #### because don't believe in ####. This may be due to the fact that it was a tribal religion. Similar to the native americans who would join their brothers in the afterlife. When you die, you go to 'your' people. As you can see from the abstracts, #### was a physical place, somewhere in the middle east, where for the jews, the 'others' were worshipping their god which was prohibited by the jews. Then the christian version came, similar to the muslim one i assume, and #### became a place for sinners. For christians all those who did not follow jesus , ####. For muslims, all who those who do not follow the way of Mohamed, ####. There seems to be a bit a of problem. Both are talking about a place which might not even exist, or did exist but in the Here and Now, not in the afterlife.
I my personal opinion, if there is such a thing as ####, I think only truly evil people go there, people who knowingly and intentionly harm other without repent, and not being conditioned by some trauma from the past.
I think most people who have a bit of good in them, will go to heaven, might have some time 'in between' solving the unsolved,but eventually go to heaven.
One thing would put in favour of the Katholic church, because they recognize other religions, not saying that are as good as theirs, but they do believe that they will also go to heaven in they are 'good' people.
What do you say ?
Freedom
Amina
hmmm......i think i joined late int he argument!
but anyway i'd like to reply....and i hope that u would consider my opinion because i've had oppertunity to fall out of islam, i have tow families one side is muslim the other is more or less atheist but call themseves protestant...now i was always confused about islam and what it preached and recently i found out why i found it hard and it's simply becasue i didn't have the strength in me to follow the religion properly, i found it so easy to believe in nothing but it felt empty...u know i read a quote by a sister in another site which said somethign along these lines i posted it once 'the world is ehaven for the non believer and #### for the believer' and it really got me thinking...i wanted to believe in something casue it would mean a reaosn to my being here, so i read a lot about islam since that's the closest faith to me and it made sense to me. everythign has a reason a rational explination some how u just have to look for it, the whole view of the religion is not to harm the human....we don't drink, smoke, have sex without marriage, do drugs...these all harm humans, smoking drugs and alcohol harms the human body, sex without marriage causes people to be confused not knowing who thei father is it's a big problem in the west i think u'd agree with that.... and the whole #### and heaven thing, yes muslims believe that only muslims will go to heaven, but it's not up to us as humans to say whose muslim and whose not...muslims talk a lot about 'niya' which is what someone has in his heart this is what will be looked at and the actions.... every religion believes this, christians believe all christians will go to heaven, jews believe that only jews will go to heaven and so on....
and u know why else i really got myself connceted tot his religion, just seeing so many converts especially women and i always wondered why and i speak tot hem and they tell me how at home they felt how safe they felt when they chose islam and that influenced me because they chose to be muslim they weren't born muslim they didn't have to be muslim and they ahve a lot of people against them fro becoming muslim yet they still convert, i think there must be a good reason for that. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world especially between educated middle class women...there mustbe a reason for that...
i can't give you the answers to everything becasue i don't have them but that's not to mean that there are no answers u just have to look and ask the right people.
i hope i've been of some help, if u want any more info just ask and i'll try and find u the answer
salam
hmmm......i think i joined late int he argument!
but anyway i'd like to reply....and i hope that u would consider my opinion because i've had oppertunity to fall out of islam, i have tow families one side is muslim the other is more or less atheist but call themseves protestant...now i was always confused about islam and what it preached and recently i found out why i found it hard and it's simply becasue i didn't have the strength in me to follow the religion properly, i found it so easy to believe in nothing but it felt empty...u know i read a quote by a sister in another site which said somethign along these lines i posted it once 'the world is ehaven for the non believer and #### for the believer' and it really got me thinking...i wanted to believe in something casue it would mean a reaosn to my being here, so i read a lot about islam since that's the closest faith to me and it made sense to me. everythign has a reason a rational explination some how u just have to look for it, the whole view of the religion is not to harm the human....we don't drink, smoke, have sex without marriage, do drugs...these all harm humans, smoking drugs and alcohol harms the human body, sex without marriage causes people to be confused not knowing who thei father is it's a big problem in the west i think u'd agree with that.... and the whole #### and heaven thing, yes muslims believe that only muslims will go to heaven, but it's not up to us as humans to say whose muslim and whose not...muslims talk a lot about 'niya' which is what someone has in his heart this is what will be looked at and the actions.... every religion believes this, christians believe all christians will go to heaven, jews believe that only jews will go to heaven and so on....
and u know why else i really got myself connceted tot his religion, just seeing so many converts especially women and i always wondered why and i speak tot hem and they tell me how at home they felt how safe they felt when they chose islam and that influenced me because they chose to be muslim they weren't born muslim they didn't have to be muslim and they ahve a lot of people against them fro becoming muslim yet they still convert, i think there must be a good reason for that. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world especially between educated middle class women...there mustbe a reason for that...
i can't give you the answers to everything becasue i don't have them but that's not to mean that there are no answers u just have to look and ask the right people.
i hope i've been of some help, if u want any more info just ask and i'll try and find u the answer
salam
syed baqar ali
The answer is 'NO'.
Point No. 1
Common sense tells us that by and large we are Muslims, Christians or whatever by birth. Most of us do not have the opportunity to study our own religion very well, much less other religions. Even if we did, there is such a lot of conflicting material that one could arrive at a decision only by God's grace.
So a serious comparative study is well-nigh impossible.
So if someone asks whether X,Y or Z will go to heaven or ####, just answer 'Only God knows'.
Point No. 2
Entering this debate is sort of presumptious. Because it means we are confident of our own place in Heaven.
I shall say no more on that.
Point No. 3
AS food for thought,
here is an Ayat from the Holy Book
'If the people of the Book accept the true faith and keep from evil, We will pardon them their sins, and admit them to gardens of delight. If they observe the Torah and the Injeel and what has been revealed to them from their Lord, they shall enjoy abundance from above and from beneath.' (5:65)
Remember who the People of the Book are : Jews and Christians.
Salams
Syed Baqar Ali
The answer is 'NO'.
Point No. 1
Common sense tells us that by and large we are Muslims, Christians or whatever by birth. Most of us do not have the opportunity to study our own religion very well, much less other religions. Even if we did, there is such a lot of conflicting material that one could arrive at a decision only by God's grace.
So a serious comparative study is well-nigh impossible.
So if someone asks whether X,Y or Z will go to heaven or ####, just answer 'Only God knows'.
Point No. 2
Entering this debate is sort of presumptious. Because it means we are confident of our own place in Heaven.
I shall say no more on that.
Point No. 3
AS food for thought,
here is an Ayat from the Holy Book
'If the people of the Book accept the true faith and keep from evil, We will pardon them their sins, and admit them to gardens of delight. If they observe the Torah and the Injeel and what has been revealed to them from their Lord, they shall enjoy abundance from above and from beneath.' (5:65)
Remember who the People of the Book are : Jews and Christians.
Salams
Syed Baqar Ali
OmHussein
Salam..
Welcome to the board!
prty 1,you are not alone when you say you dont get it...heard this many,many times...
And it is no wonder that you ask these questions,it must look terrible for someone not on the inside of Islam .
First,there is a big difference between many peoples actions and statements and religion.That couldnt be more obvious than in the case of Taliban and bin-laden.
And they are not the only ones,sadly....
All the issues you brought up are not in accordance with Islam as a religion.There is nothing in Islam that accepts this kind of abuse of women.
The issue of marrying several women is more complexe though,there is obligations and duties and conciderations to take on the male side before he can marry a second wife.This is not something that is supposed to be easy and totaly up to the male without thinking of his first wife.And it is not supposed to be an issue of satisfying male desires.I think the only ones that understand these peoples way of thinking are these people themselfs....
It is sad that so many wrongs are committed by "religious people" all over the world,not only "muslims" like taliban.It prevents people from seeing the real message and beauty of the religion when they are bombarded with these kind of images.
Salam..
Welcome to the board!
prty 1,you are not alone when you say you dont get it...heard this many,many times...
And it is no wonder that you ask these questions,it must look terrible for someone not on the inside of Islam .
First,there is a big difference between many peoples actions and statements and religion.That couldnt be more obvious than in the case of Taliban and bin-laden.
And they are not the only ones,sadly....
All the issues you brought up are not in accordance with Islam as a religion.There is nothing in Islam that accepts this kind of abuse of women.
The issue of marrying several women is more complexe though,there is obligations and duties and conciderations to take on the male side before he can marry a second wife.This is not something that is supposed to be easy and totaly up to the male without thinking of his first wife.And it is not supposed to be an issue of satisfying male desires.I think the only ones that understand these peoples way of thinking are these people themselfs....
It is sad that so many wrongs are committed by "religious people" all over the world,not only "muslims" like taliban.It prevents people from seeing the real message and beauty of the religion when they are bombarded with these kind of images.
This topic was originally started by brother Jonathen Mann on 1/18/00 3:47:53 pm:
Hi,
I am new here and don't fully understand the site but I would like to learn more. I would like to ask a question to all of you who visit. Do only Muslims go to Heaven and all others to ####? Or is there some other concept behind the whole thing?
Please reply and thanks.
J. Mann
Hi,
I am new here and don't fully understand the site but I would like to learn more. I would like to ask a question to all of you who visit. Do only Muslims go to Heaven and all others to ####? Or is there some other concept behind the whole thing?
Please reply and thanks.
J. Mann
Freedom
Who are you to tell me what is right or wrong.
How can you tell that Jews or Christians will go ####, if they don't follow the words of Muhamed ?
Can't you just relax your right-wing attitude and try to come to consensus. All this wining about my religion is better than yours won't help anybody, but to feed prejudices against the other. It's all the same God and he/she/it must my crying its eyes out for how 'his' children dispise each other and have killed each other. That what you are saying about people who don't follow the Quran, is what the medieval despotic church said in Europe, and now you are saying to the people of today. I guess the Englightment hasn't reached your world yet.
Who are you to tell me what is right or wrong.
How can you tell that Jews or Christians will go ####, if they don't follow the words of Muhamed ?
Can't you just relax your right-wing attitude and try to come to consensus. All this wining about my religion is better than yours won't help anybody, but to feed prejudices against the other. It's all the same God and he/she/it must my crying its eyes out for how 'his' children dispise each other and have killed each other. That what you are saying about people who don't follow the Quran, is what the medieval despotic church said in Europe, and now you are saying to the people of today. I guess the Englightment hasn't reached your world yet.
Freedom
No, I don't belong to a close-minded culture.
But I do want to engage in a dialogue with you.
However, you don't seem to want to answer me.
I wander why ? All am asking to answer my questions, rationally, without depending on dogmas imposed upon you by your religion.
But you tell to go away! How can embrace a religion which tells me to go away ? Actually, it is not the religion which tells to go away, it's you who is telling me to go away.
But please, I am asking to answer the question, to be compassionate, as you book tell you to be.
No, I don't belong to a close-minded culture.
But I do want to engage in a dialogue with you.
However, you don't seem to want to answer me.
I wander why ? All am asking to answer my questions, rationally, without depending on dogmas imposed upon you by your religion.
But you tell to go away! How can embrace a religion which tells me to go away ? Actually, it is not the religion which tells to go away, it's you who is telling me to go away.
But please, I am asking to answer the question, to be compassionate, as you book tell you to be.
Freedom
Thank you very much,
A sensible person.
I do not want to 'attack' islam, although I do admit I was quite aggressive in my questioning. But there are reasons for that, and I do attack most institutionalised religions, especially Christianity and Judaism. You see, I always find that it is those orthodox aspects of a religion, which wants to differentiate people. When you say your religion is the right one and mine is not, it sets up a conflict.
As the other guy put it "under the flag of the real Gods religion" or "The holy quran saysif whoever does not rule/judge by what God has revealed, then they are UNBELIEVERS".
I don't know but he seems to attack anybody who's not of Islamic faith. Doesn't anybody question what they have been spoonfed ? I totally questioned my upbringing, ans saw that they were differences, or supposed to be differences. But doesn't everybody have joy and pain, doesn't everybody search for happiness. Spirituality, there are all these different faiths accros the world. Is there such a thing as the 'true religion' ? One God for everybody ? You know, it could be that Jesus, Muhamed were enlightened people, but maybe not. There is so much uncertainty, but then there is people say that they are right, and the others a wrong. It just seems racist in a way.
So please feel free to enter into dialogue.
Thank you,
Freedom
Thank you very much,
A sensible person.
I do not want to 'attack' islam, although I do admit I was quite aggressive in my questioning. But there are reasons for that, and I do attack most institutionalised religions, especially Christianity and Judaism. You see, I always find that it is those orthodox aspects of a religion, which wants to differentiate people. When you say your religion is the right one and mine is not, it sets up a conflict.
As the other guy put it "under the flag of the real Gods religion" or "The holy quran saysif whoever does not rule/judge by what God has revealed, then they are UNBELIEVERS".
I don't know but he seems to attack anybody who's not of Islamic faith. Doesn't anybody question what they have been spoonfed ? I totally questioned my upbringing, ans saw that they were differences, or supposed to be differences. But doesn't everybody have joy and pain, doesn't everybody search for happiness. Spirituality, there are all these different faiths accros the world. Is there such a thing as the 'true religion' ? One God for everybody ? You know, it could be that Jesus, Muhamed were enlightened people, but maybe not. There is so much uncertainty, but then there is people say that they are right, and the others a wrong. It just seems racist in a way.
So please feel free to enter into dialogue.
Thank you,
Freedom
Freedom
Dear Sir,
I don't think Christianity is the true religion, but the Catholic church, the Orthodox church, say they are the right path. Judaism, yes indeed, some people within this religion claim themselves to be the chosen people. But it's just a matter of interpretation. Some just interpret it that they were the chosen people to reveal God's will. Other, orthodox jews, use this to claim back land in some silly place which 'they' used to have more than 2000 years ago. But here, it is just a matter of power. Who is the strongest in this struggle, the rock-thrower or the rocket-thrower. It's quite obvious. But anyway, that is not what this conversation is about.
It is about the fact that you claim that Koran is 'the way', and that I , who doesn't follow the koran ,will go to ####. You say it is so because it's written in the Koran. That is not a very reliable source, isn't it? How can you claim that what is written in a book is right ? The Bible or Torah, all the same, just because person wrote something 3000, 2000 or 1500 years ago doesn't mean anything, does it ?
You said that Mohamed finalized the book. How do you know he was the last profet? Maybe it was the man, I forgot his name, who founded the Mormon religion, he also had some revelations and founded, another version, of christianity. Maybe he was the last profet sent by God. But in the end who knows ? I don't .
I see the different religions not as one better than the other, just different ways to a possible truth. Just by seeing the differences, I don't think any of the religions is the true religion, just various interpretations of the truth, or Gods will. If there even is a god...but that is another issue. So I still can't see that you can claim that Islam is the path.
Then when you start imposing these laws of a faith into the laws a nation,like a muslim-state, or a jew-state, I think it goes horribly wrong. Because in that case, you make those differences into a law, and those who are not part of it will be persecuted, how it always happened through the centuries.
Please let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Freedom
Dear Sir,
I don't think Christianity is the true religion, but the Catholic church, the Orthodox church, say they are the right path. Judaism, yes indeed, some people within this religion claim themselves to be the chosen people. But it's just a matter of interpretation. Some just interpret it that they were the chosen people to reveal God's will. Other, orthodox jews, use this to claim back land in some silly place which 'they' used to have more than 2000 years ago. But here, it is just a matter of power. Who is the strongest in this struggle, the rock-thrower or the rocket-thrower. It's quite obvious. But anyway, that is not what this conversation is about.
It is about the fact that you claim that Koran is 'the way', and that I , who doesn't follow the koran ,will go to ####. You say it is so because it's written in the Koran. That is not a very reliable source, isn't it? How can you claim that what is written in a book is right ? The Bible or Torah, all the same, just because person wrote something 3000, 2000 or 1500 years ago doesn't mean anything, does it ?
You said that Mohamed finalized the book. How do you know he was the last profet? Maybe it was the man, I forgot his name, who founded the Mormon religion, he also had some revelations and founded, another version, of christianity. Maybe he was the last profet sent by God. But in the end who knows ? I don't .
I see the different religions not as one better than the other, just different ways to a possible truth. Just by seeing the differences, I don't think any of the religions is the true religion, just various interpretations of the truth, or Gods will. If there even is a god...but that is another issue. So I still can't see that you can claim that Islam is the path.
Then when you start imposing these laws of a faith into the laws a nation,like a muslim-state, or a jew-state, I think it goes horribly wrong. Because in that case, you make those differences into a law, and those who are not part of it will be persecuted, how it always happened through the centuries.
Please let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Freedom
MujahidKhuluq
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Let us clarify....John Smith(Mormon founder) claimed to be a prophet, and is proclaimed to be a prophet...however...many people are given this title by Christians simply because they preach the gospels rather...fervently. However, they do not show the signs of Prophethood at all. The cheif qualifier for a Prophethood is the bearing of Shariah. All that John Smith did was falsify a gospel and add it to a bunch of already falsified gospels of the life of Jesus(as). He did nothing to indicate tha the was actually a prophet. The same goes for the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Neither of these men were prophets either, they simply took the Qur'an and tried to make haraam some of the things that are designated halaal. They were nothing special. They were just riding off the coattails of Islam.
Now, how do I know that the Qur'an is valid? Well, for one thing, let us consider that Muhammad(sal) was not a highly educated man, but a shepard. One day, out of the blue, he began having these seizures and along with the seizures came the most beautiful and uncomparable poetry that had ever come out of an Arab...much less anyone on the face of the planet! We know that this man was the Last of the Prophets because this beautiful peice of poetry that spontaneously came out of the mouth of this uneducated shepard states so...and because his name is specifically mentioned in many a previous scripture. He is mentioned by name, as Muhammad(sal), in the Song of Solomon and other Old Testament scriptures. In the Aramaic Gospel he is mentioned by his celestial name Ahmad. In the Vedic scriptures he is likewise mentioned by the name Muhammad(sal). In fact, in those scriptures there are some very very specific details mentioned about Muhammad(sal) and the Muslims. Including the number of his companions that would be with him on certain occassions. This is not a case of speculation, or blind faith. This is truth.
The fact remains, for a very long time the Qur'an was passed along as an oral tradition...just like the Torah was initially and the Gospel of Jesus(as). These things were very very well preserved for a very long time. The Qur'an had passages written on various materials from the start, but it was not compiled for a long time. Torah was recorded and compiled, then later altered by the Rabbis. This is historical fact. The Gospel of Jesus(as) was passed on through his disciples...and then around 70 to 100 years later someone used this initial Gospel(which was by then recorded and well preserved) as a basis, and then altered to fit the epistles of Paul. This too is historical fact. There are numerous scriptures that are cited in the "canonical" falsified gospels that were purposely left out of the finalized "bible" that the Council of Nicea agreed upon in 365 CE. Qur'an is the only one of these documents that hasn't be tampered with, and that has been uncompromisingly preserved for 1,400 years.
As for what I think, I think you are so firm in your atheistic/agnostic thoughts and faith that you're trying to shake the faith of those who are on the correct path...you're attempting to pray on the weaker of our people. If this is indeed the case, please take it somewhere else.
Dawud
Bismillah
As salaam alaikum,
Let us clarify....John Smith(Mormon founder) claimed to be a prophet, and is proclaimed to be a prophet...however...many people are given this title by Christians simply because they preach the gospels rather...fervently. However, they do not show the signs of Prophethood at all. The cheif qualifier for a Prophethood is the bearing of Shariah. All that John Smith did was falsify a gospel and add it to a bunch of already falsified gospels of the life of Jesus(as). He did nothing to indicate tha the was actually a prophet. The same goes for the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Neither of these men were prophets either, they simply took the Qur'an and tried to make haraam some of the things that are designated halaal. They were nothing special. They were just riding off the coattails of Islam.
Now, how do I know that the Qur'an is valid? Well, for one thing, let us consider that Muhammad(sal) was not a highly educated man, but a shepard. One day, out of the blue, he began having these seizures and along with the seizures came the most beautiful and uncomparable poetry that had ever come out of an Arab...much less anyone on the face of the planet! We know that this man was the Last of the Prophets because this beautiful peice of poetry that spontaneously came out of the mouth of this uneducated shepard states so...and because his name is specifically mentioned in many a previous scripture. He is mentioned by name, as Muhammad(sal), in the Song of Solomon and other Old Testament scriptures. In the Aramaic Gospel he is mentioned by his celestial name Ahmad. In the Vedic scriptures he is likewise mentioned by the name Muhammad(sal). In fact, in those scriptures there are some very very specific details mentioned about Muhammad(sal) and the Muslims. Including the number of his companions that would be with him on certain occassions. This is not a case of speculation, or blind faith. This is truth.
The fact remains, for a very long time the Qur'an was passed along as an oral tradition...just like the Torah was initially and the Gospel of Jesus(as). These things were very very well preserved for a very long time. The Qur'an had passages written on various materials from the start, but it was not compiled for a long time. Torah was recorded and compiled, then later altered by the Rabbis. This is historical fact. The Gospel of Jesus(as) was passed on through his disciples...and then around 70 to 100 years later someone used this initial Gospel(which was by then recorded and well preserved) as a basis, and then altered to fit the epistles of Paul. This too is historical fact. There are numerous scriptures that are cited in the "canonical" falsified gospels that were purposely left out of the finalized "bible" that the Council of Nicea agreed upon in 365 CE. Qur'an is the only one of these documents that hasn't be tampered with, and that has been uncompromisingly preserved for 1,400 years.
As for what I think, I think you are so firm in your atheistic/agnostic thoughts and faith that you're trying to shake the faith of those who are on the correct path...you're attempting to pray on the weaker of our people. If this is indeed the case, please take it somewhere else.
Dawud
reza mohd
Salam,
I just want to tell Freedom that the person who started the topic is called Jonathen Mann, so I don't think he is a Muslim. I would also like to make the following points:
1. I don't think that Mujahid was trying to impose any thoughts of Islam on you. He was just defending Islam.
2. Freedom, you seem to doubt that very personalities of Prophet Muhammed and Prophet Jesus. It is true that you can always doubt everything that occured in the past, like how the Earth was made, was man an ape, were there really dinosaurs.... However, all these claims can be falsified by using one's brain. The brain isn't all made up of logical knowledge, a part of that knowledge is known as "knowledge by belief". I may not have translated the title exactly, but hte point is that this religous section is present in every person ever since they are born. Some choose to make use of it whereas others ignore it.
The part of the brain that deals with beliefs is what gives you a feeling that there is some being higher than you at times of stress or dillemas. Additionally, if we use our logical brain to think about it, we would conclude that there is no way that, for example, God isn't present (asteqfor allah). You cannot say for example that a book that you're reading was formed by letters that came flying from all over the plce and created a book. There must have been a writer who chose to write a book. If you understand Arabic, then you can read the book "Lessons in Beliefs" by "Shaikh Misbah Al-Yazdy" for an in-depth analysis of finding God. He makes the point that we cannot say that Allah is there just because the Quran says so, because peopel from other religions would simply disregard this. Therefore, we should prove this by using the brain which everyone has. And he manages to prove it very nicely in a way that would convince any reader.
I hope these points will help you in your discussion.
reza
Salam,
I just want to tell Freedom that the person who started the topic is called Jonathen Mann, so I don't think he is a Muslim. I would also like to make the following points:
1. I don't think that Mujahid was trying to impose any thoughts of Islam on you. He was just defending Islam.
2. Freedom, you seem to doubt that very personalities of Prophet Muhammed and Prophet Jesus. It is true that you can always doubt everything that occured in the past, like how the Earth was made, was man an ape, were there really dinosaurs.... However, all these claims can be falsified by using one's brain. The brain isn't all made up of logical knowledge, a part of that knowledge is known as "knowledge by belief". I may not have translated the title exactly, but hte point is that this religous section is present in every person ever since they are born. Some choose to make use of it whereas others ignore it.
The part of the brain that deals with beliefs is what gives you a feeling that there is some being higher than you at times of stress or dillemas. Additionally, if we use our logical brain to think about it, we would conclude that there is no way that, for example, God isn't present (asteqfor allah). You cannot say for example that a book that you're reading was formed by letters that came flying from all over the plce and created a book. There must have been a writer who chose to write a book. If you understand Arabic, then you can read the book "Lessons in Beliefs" by "Shaikh Misbah Al-Yazdy" for an in-depth analysis of finding God. He makes the point that we cannot say that Allah is there just because the Quran says so, because peopel from other religions would simply disregard this. Therefore, we should prove this by using the brain which everyone has. And he manages to prove it very nicely in a way that would convince any reader.
I hope these points will help you in your discussion.
reza
Freedom
Dawud,
I truly admit the fact that I question everything, sometimes too much, and my worldview is pretty much deconstructed. Traumatic experience, well yes and no. Nothing ever really serious happened to me, but, somehow, i have been, how can I say, overwhelmed by cynicism towards anything to those who say they are right and others are wrong. You have found Islam as the way, but other may have found the way in Budhism or Christianity. Actually, could you explain me why you think Christianity or Judaism ( leaving aside the racist issue ) is 'unnatural', whereas Islam would be more natural, as you say, it has the 'fitrah' .
But back to the fact that Islam was the right thing for you. It probably has been. But what if I one day wake up wanting to be Christian or even Budhist, because there are some westeners 'converting' to Budhism. In a way, I could see myself doing so, just because of the only fact i know about it, and that is for them God is a mystery. Are they ascetic, I don't know. I know they don't get involved in your sexual life as any of the monotheistic religions do.
You choose your religion, and you deem it to be right for you. And then you seem to tell Jonathan up there, that the other will go to #### if they don't follow the way of islam. Don't you think there is something wrong there, judging the other for following the other path, which are very parallel, but still...
Also, I have a couple of Muslim friends and even had muslim girlfriend, but they were quite open minded ( no offence ! ) as in that they drank a beer, some ate pork...What about them ?
Or what's your idea about Muslim states ? I'm quite in favour of an absolute division between religion and state, so that people are free to believe whatever they want. However, I do acknowledge the fact, if everybody does what they believe, society becomes very fragmented, like living next to each , but not knowing each other.
Anyway, enough questions.
Later
Dawud,
I truly admit the fact that I question everything, sometimes too much, and my worldview is pretty much deconstructed. Traumatic experience, well yes and no. Nothing ever really serious happened to me, but, somehow, i have been, how can I say, overwhelmed by cynicism towards anything to those who say they are right and others are wrong. You have found Islam as the way, but other may have found the way in Budhism or Christianity. Actually, could you explain me why you think Christianity or Judaism ( leaving aside the racist issue ) is 'unnatural', whereas Islam would be more natural, as you say, it has the 'fitrah' .
But back to the fact that Islam was the right thing for you. It probably has been. But what if I one day wake up wanting to be Christian or even Budhist, because there are some westeners 'converting' to Budhism. In a way, I could see myself doing so, just because of the only fact i know about it, and that is for them God is a mystery. Are they ascetic, I don't know. I know they don't get involved in your sexual life as any of the monotheistic religions do.
You choose your religion, and you deem it to be right for you. And then you seem to tell Jonathan up there, that the other will go to #### if they don't follow the way of islam. Don't you think there is something wrong there, judging the other for following the other path, which are very parallel, but still...
Also, I have a couple of Muslim friends and even had muslim girlfriend, but they were quite open minded ( no offence ! ) as in that they drank a beer, some ate pork...What about them ?
Or what's your idea about Muslim states ? I'm quite in favour of an absolute division between religion and state, so that people are free to believe whatever they want. However, I do acknowledge the fact, if everybody does what they believe, society becomes very fragmented, like living next to each , but not knowing each other.
Anyway, enough questions.
Later
Freedom
Hello Dewud,
Hellfire. Interesting concept. Reality ? I don't know.
Existance on earth tends to a mixture of positive and negative experiences. #### would be a place of fire and a big red guy with a trident poking me for eternity, or maybe my own personal #### with all my negativity concentrated for all eternity, or would a True death, death of the soul. But what if #### doesn't exist, what if it is just a translation error from the testament. ? For example, the ancient Greeks used the description 'barbarian' for those who did not speak greek. It was an onomatopoeic word for the sound of what the non-greek speaking sounded like. The Romans took over this word from Greece and the literature of today, they still describe the Gallic or Germanic tribes as barabarians. Today however, the meaning of this word means people who are animals, uneducated, rough etc...
You see how the meaning of words change. Now, ####, where does it come from. Where does the idea come from. Maybe it was used to describe a place which was not Jewish/Christain? or something.
Why would a God cast his own creation into a God-less world, or ####. Freedom, yes, man is free to choose, which is something animals or angels do not have, we have the liberty of choice. Well that is what some people say. But what about conditioning ? Psychological conditioning from the past which makes you do illegal things, whether civil or relgiously illegal. My mother told me once about when my sister was in the cradle, a little boy was looking at her, about 5 or 6 years old, and he wanted to pinch my sister,hurt her. Now, what would make a little boy of such an age, make a conscious decision to hurt, I would say, a very innocent child. The Devil ? I would say that it would be something rather in the upbringing of the child. Napoleon and Hitler had unhappy childhoods and unleached their anger upon mankind. (Joke)
What I'm trying to get to is, that maybe all the evil, well I don't know about ALL evil, but in a lot of cases, just from conditioning. The same for your religious choice. I've had a 'christian' upbringing, eventhough my parents were agnostic at the time ( not anymore )...but then after time , one might start to find values or Truth on the religion of your upbringing. I know that is not the case for you, but for a lot of people it is, they fall back on what they have been brought up with, giving them some structure, to fall back onto.
There is an expression which goes liek this : Revolutiary
at 20, moderate at 40, conservative at 60.
Also about ####. I don't think, i'm not sure about this, do Jews have #### ? I don't think they do, because it is or was quite a tribal religion, their god, for their people, against to all the other people and when you die , you go to your god. I have also heard, ( I don't even remember where and how ) that it had to do something with the Romans who destroyed their temple, and it 'devil' was used to describe the Roman emperor ( Titus I think )
Yes, I know, doubts questions etc. But what my job is here in this conversation. Now about more silly details, about eating pork, what wrong with ? I think in Judaism it had to with diseases the animal spread, I don't know how many years ago. But farming has been evolving a positive direction,and it's quite safe to eat it, and it tastes pretty good as well. I wouldn't really consider it a sin. I do see you point if defying God, or the divine will as a sin. But eating pork ,scientifically ?
Some for the other relgious prohibition. Alcohol.
In western countries like the US or Britain, the more reg
ulations there are, the more they abuse it. The more
relaxed the country is about it, the more 'harmonous' the
use it. Italy is a good example.
You also mention homosexuality. It's a strange fenomenon, however, always been present. The most normal thing with the Greeks and Romans, now a sin.
I can see it's decadence you mean by this form of sexuality. But what if you, being true to your feelings, realy feel like this. What can you do ? Lie to yourself. Well you can say the same about killing, " I really felt like killing him " but you don't really hurt anybody with homosexuality (except for yourself maybe). Then again, it could be caused by the conditioning, or 'wrong' conditioning as I mentionned before.
The first word we are going to study is "####." In the New Testament the word "####" is translated from the Greek word "geenna" or more commonly translated "gehenna" except for eleven places. Gehenna is derived from two Hebrew words, "gay" meaning a valley, and "Hinnom" which is a valley south of Jerusalem named after an unknown person but together it is known as the Valley of Hinnom. To better understand why Jesus used this term, a history of the valley is needed.
During the time when the nation of Israel was divided into two states being the northern and southern kingdom, the Valley of Hinnom was a place where apostate Jews offered their children as burnt offerings to the false god Molech. Molech was the chief deity of the Moabites. (Jeremiah 7:30-31; 19:2-6) Israel was expressly forbidden to worship any foreign god.
Hello Dewud,
Hellfire. Interesting concept. Reality ? I don't know.
Existance on earth tends to a mixture of positive and negative experiences. #### would be a place of fire and a big red guy with a trident poking me for eternity, or maybe my own personal #### with all my negativity concentrated for all eternity, or would a True death, death of the soul. But what if #### doesn't exist, what if it is just a translation error from the testament. ? For example, the ancient Greeks used the description 'barbarian' for those who did not speak greek. It was an onomatopoeic word for the sound of what the non-greek speaking sounded like. The Romans took over this word from Greece and the literature of today, they still describe the Gallic or Germanic tribes as barabarians. Today however, the meaning of this word means people who are animals, uneducated, rough etc...
You see how the meaning of words change. Now, ####, where does it come from. Where does the idea come from. Maybe it was used to describe a place which was not Jewish/Christain? or something.
Why would a God cast his own creation into a God-less world, or ####. Freedom, yes, man is free to choose, which is something animals or angels do not have, we have the liberty of choice. Well that is what some people say. But what about conditioning ? Psychological conditioning from the past which makes you do illegal things, whether civil or relgiously illegal. My mother told me once about when my sister was in the cradle, a little boy was looking at her, about 5 or 6 years old, and he wanted to pinch my sister,hurt her. Now, what would make a little boy of such an age, make a conscious decision to hurt, I would say, a very innocent child. The Devil ? I would say that it would be something rather in the upbringing of the child. Napoleon and Hitler had unhappy childhoods and unleached their anger upon mankind. (Joke)
What I'm trying to get to is, that maybe all the evil, well I don't know about ALL evil, but in a lot of cases, just from conditioning. The same for your religious choice. I've had a 'christian' upbringing, eventhough my parents were agnostic at the time ( not anymore )...but then after time , one might start to find values or Truth on the religion of your upbringing. I know that is not the case for you, but for a lot of people it is, they fall back on what they have been brought up with, giving them some structure, to fall back onto.
There is an expression which goes liek this : Revolutiary
at 20, moderate at 40, conservative at 60.
Also about ####. I don't think, i'm not sure about this, do Jews have #### ? I don't think they do, because it is or was quite a tribal religion, their god, for their people, against to all the other people and when you die , you go to your god. I have also heard, ( I don't even remember where and how ) that it had to do something with the Romans who destroyed their temple, and it 'devil' was used to describe the Roman emperor ( Titus I think )
Yes, I know, doubts questions etc. But what my job is here in this conversation. Now about more silly details, about eating pork, what wrong with ? I think in Judaism it had to with diseases the animal spread, I don't know how many years ago. But farming has been evolving a positive direction,and it's quite safe to eat it, and it tastes pretty good as well. I wouldn't really consider it a sin. I do see you point if defying God, or the divine will as a sin. But eating pork ,scientifically ?
Some for the other relgious prohibition. Alcohol.
In western countries like the US or Britain, the more reg
ulations there are, the more they abuse it. The more
relaxed the country is about it, the more 'harmonous' the
use it. Italy is a good example.
You also mention homosexuality. It's a strange fenomenon, however, always been present. The most normal thing with the Greeks and Romans, now a sin.
I can see it's decadence you mean by this form of sexuality. But what if you, being true to your feelings, realy feel like this. What can you do ? Lie to yourself. Well you can say the same about killing, " I really felt like killing him " but you don't really hurt anybody with homosexuality (except for yourself maybe). Then again, it could be caused by the conditioning, or 'wrong' conditioning as I mentionned before.
The first word we are going to study is "####." In the New Testament the word "####" is translated from the Greek word "geenna" or more commonly translated "gehenna" except for eleven places. Gehenna is derived from two Hebrew words, "gay" meaning a valley, and "Hinnom" which is a valley south of Jerusalem named after an unknown person but together it is known as the Valley of Hinnom. To better understand why Jesus used this term, a history of the valley is needed.
During the time when the nation of Israel was divided into two states being the northern and southern kingdom, the Valley of Hinnom was a place where apostate Jews offered their children as burnt offerings to the false god Molech. Molech was the chief deity of the Moabites. (Jeremiah 7:30-31; 19:2-6) Israel was expressly forbidden to worship any foreign god.
Freedom
If I would be an oppurtunist, I would choose Judaism, because the most I can get is 12 months. I'm doing my masters at the moment in London, so I know what it's like to be #### for a year.
If I would be an oppurtunist, I would choose Judaism, because the most I can get is 12 months. I'm doing my masters at the moment in London, so I know what it's like to be #### for a year.
Nur
Assalamu alaikum,
I will try to give a detailed reply later but for the time being I will just say that Islam does not preach that AL muslims go to #### and that all non-muslims go to heaven. There are a few basic points to be made:
1) There are certain beliefs that Islam considers to be innate beliefs and to go against these beliefs is to lie to yourself. Examples of such beliefs include the belief that murder is wrong. This is a unversal rule about which we do not have to convince people, because it is an innate belief.
Similarly belief in the existence of God is considered to be an innate belief and a rejection of this belief is concidered to be a serious sin for which a person will be severly punished. Scientists, such as Einstein and Eddison argued also that awareness of God is innate and for someone not to have that awareness means that they are lacking something.
2) Now outside of innate beliefs there are things which are debatable or which people will not know about unless they are taught about it or made aware of it. This includes, belief in prophets and scriptures. Regarding these beliefs people will be judged according to their knowledge and intention.
3) According to Islam ALL people, muslim and non-muslim, are tested with choosing truth and rejecting falsehood. So, muslims do not have an advantage over non-muslims simply because they have been brought up as a muslim.
ALL people, inclluding muslims, are required to investigate into and reason about their beliefs. In other words, according to Islam, muslims should not be blind followers, because if you are a blind follower and are simply following the "religion of yoir forefathers" then you are bound to have some false beliefs.
Once we begin to investigate into our beliefs, whether we are muslims or non-muslims, we will almost certainly find inconsistencies inour beliefs and when we come across the inconsistencies we are expected to choose that which has the strongest evidence and which makes the most sense. Regarding this the Quran says that "a believer is one who listens to all the sides and then chooses the best".
4) Islam makes TRUTH the standard so that believers are those who accept truth and disbelievers are those who reject truth. This is why in the Quran the disbelievers are described as LIARS.
By this concept we accept Muhammad (saw) as the last prophet, because it is the truth and we accept the Quran, because we beleive it is the truth that Quran is the Word of God.
By making TRUTH itself the standard in Islam we are able to define a believer as someone who accepts the truth over falsehood and a disbeliever as one who chooses falsehood over truth.
Those who choose the truth and act accordingly are rewarded and those who choose falsehood and act accordingly are punished. This means that muslims who deliberately rejected certain truths may be punished and that non-muslims, whose intention was good but who never accepted Islam simply due to lack of knowledge, may be rewarded. This is why, in fact, that muslims are not allowed to point at a non-muslim person and say that he/she is a kaffir (a disbeliever).
Assalamu alaikum,
I will try to give a detailed reply later but for the time being I will just say that Islam does not preach that AL muslims go to #### and that all non-muslims go to heaven. There are a few basic points to be made:
1) There are certain beliefs that Islam considers to be innate beliefs and to go against these beliefs is to lie to yourself. Examples of such beliefs include the belief that murder is wrong. This is a unversal rule about which we do not have to convince people, because it is an innate belief.
Similarly belief in the existence of God is considered to be an innate belief and a rejection of this belief is concidered to be a serious sin for which a person will be severly punished. Scientists, such as Einstein and Eddison argued also that awareness of God is innate and for someone not to have that awareness means that they are lacking something.
2) Now outside of innate beliefs there are things which are debatable or which people will not know about unless they are taught about it or made aware of it. This includes, belief in prophets and scriptures. Regarding these beliefs people will be judged according to their knowledge and intention.
3) According to Islam ALL people, muslim and non-muslim, are tested with choosing truth and rejecting falsehood. So, muslims do not have an advantage over non-muslims simply because they have been brought up as a muslim.
ALL people, inclluding muslims, are required to investigate into and reason about their beliefs. In other words, according to Islam, muslims should not be blind followers, because if you are a blind follower and are simply following the "religion of yoir forefathers" then you are bound to have some false beliefs.
Once we begin to investigate into our beliefs, whether we are muslims or non-muslims, we will almost certainly find inconsistencies inour beliefs and when we come across the inconsistencies we are expected to choose that which has the strongest evidence and which makes the most sense. Regarding this the Quran says that "a believer is one who listens to all the sides and then chooses the best".
4) Islam makes TRUTH the standard so that believers are those who accept truth and disbelievers are those who reject truth. This is why in the Quran the disbelievers are described as LIARS.
By this concept we accept Muhammad (saw) as the last prophet, because it is the truth and we accept the Quran, because we beleive it is the truth that Quran is the Word of God.
By making TRUTH itself the standard in Islam we are able to define a believer as someone who accepts the truth over falsehood and a disbeliever as one who chooses falsehood over truth.
Those who choose the truth and act accordingly are rewarded and those who choose falsehood and act accordingly are punished. This means that muslims who deliberately rejected certain truths may be punished and that non-muslims, whose intention was good but who never accepted Islam simply due to lack of knowledge, may be rewarded. This is why, in fact, that muslims are not allowed to point at a non-muslim person and say that he/she is a kaffir (a disbeliever).
prty1
Tell me this--Why are Muslim women abused so in countries like Afganistan? They are executed publicly for crimes as simple as (Allah forbid) exposing their hair or (gulp) the oh-so-awful education.
They are not allowed to work and are abandoned by husbands. They have to beg for rotting food for their children. They are allowed to be beaten in the streets. They have husbands who can marry other women--which I personally consider adultary--and very wrong--and yet multiple wives are completely acceptable. That alone is extremely degrading to women. A man can have sex with as many woman as he can marry, yet a woman is bound to an abusive system.
Not only this, but the garb they are required to wear is supposed to "honor" them by not letting men be tempted by them--that is crazy!!! Wouldn't it be more honorable to be respected without having to hide in fear of being raped? Doesn't it make more sense to say a husband who really respects his wife would be man enough to not ogle other women? I think the whole system makes women seem sub-human.
Furthermore, the "honorable men" who commit these atrocities also earn millions by selling heroine--that's right--poppy products are the major export in this region.
Tell me this--Why are Muslim women abused so in countries like Afganistan? They are executed publicly for crimes as simple as (Allah forbid) exposing their hair or (gulp) the oh-so-awful education.
They are not allowed to work and are abandoned by husbands. They have to beg for rotting food for their children. They are allowed to be beaten in the streets. They have husbands who can marry other women--which I personally consider adultary--and very wrong--and yet multiple wives are completely acceptable. That alone is extremely degrading to women. A man can have sex with as many woman as he can marry, yet a woman is bound to an abusive system.
Not only this, but the garb they are required to wear is supposed to "honor" them by not letting men be tempted by them--that is crazy!!! Wouldn't it be more honorable to be respected without having to hide in fear of being raped? Doesn't it make more sense to say a husband who really respects his wife would be man enough to not ogle other women? I think the whole system makes women seem sub-human.
Furthermore, the "honorable men" who commit these atrocities also earn millions by selling heroine--that's right--poppy products are the major export in this region.
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