As salaam alaikum,
Can someone pls kindly explain me the justifications for us to do ma'tam my colleagues often ask me why we hit ourselves when in Qur'an its written not hit urself. Pls explain
Full Version: Ma'tam
salam,
| QUOTE |
| when in Qur'an its written not hit urself. Pls explain |
Where exactly is the verse that says: 'Don't hit yourselves'?
Such issues must be addressed outside religion, taking reason as the yardstick. Reason says that emotion cannot be contained when it flows in great magnitude.
reza
| QUOTE (sister3 @ Sep 22 2004, 04:05 PM) |
| As salaam alaikum, Can someone pls kindly explain me the justifications for us to do ma'tam my colleagues often ask me why we hit ourselves when in Qur'an its written not hit urself. Pls explain |
as-slaam wa alikuma Uhkty
where is there proof and evidence to that statement that u said they made above
inshallah what u need to do is go back to u're colleauges and ask them where is there proof ,evidence's or are they just speaking out of ignorance acting with out knowledge or having knowldege and not acting upon it !
As salaam alaikum,
Thank u for ur replies, people have so far asked me many ques like why we perform sajjda on sajdigah, why we mourn and cry..thanks to Allah I have always answered to all questions with much confidence but for the question abt ma'tam I myself do not understand it properly and therefore am not able to justify it.
Can you please explain me properly why we perform ma'tam i know when emotions are beyond bounds everyone does ma'tam not only for our beloved imams but also when their own family members die sunnis also end up crying incontrolerably and do ma'tam...BUT when i go to majalis, whether an individual is crying or not, they stand and do ma'tam regardless, I have seen women talking to each other (chatting) and doing ma'tam. I do ma'tam only when i feel the my grief for my imams is too much for me to bear..
Pls explain this, do we have any proof whether our beloved H.Zainab did ma'tam or read nohas?
Pls dont get angry with my question it is something I wan to gain complete knowledge of. i am thankful to Allah for showing me the light to the straight path. We are lucky that we have nahjul balagha and so many other books by our such great imams.
thank you
Thank u for ur replies, people have so far asked me many ques like why we perform sajjda on sajdigah, why we mourn and cry..thanks to Allah I have always answered to all questions with much confidence but for the question abt ma'tam I myself do not understand it properly and therefore am not able to justify it.
Can you please explain me properly why we perform ma'tam i know when emotions are beyond bounds everyone does ma'tam not only for our beloved imams but also when their own family members die sunnis also end up crying incontrolerably and do ma'tam...BUT when i go to majalis, whether an individual is crying or not, they stand and do ma'tam regardless, I have seen women talking to each other (chatting) and doing ma'tam. I do ma'tam only when i feel the my grief for my imams is too much for me to bear..
Pls explain this, do we have any proof whether our beloved H.Zainab did ma'tam or read nohas?
Pls dont get angry with my question it is something I wan to gain complete knowledge of. i am thankful to Allah for showing me the light to the straight path. We are lucky that we have nahjul balagha and so many other books by our such great imams.
thank you
| QUOTE (sister3 @ Sep 22 2004, 04:05 PM) |
| As salaam alaikum, Can someone pls kindly explain me the justifications for us to do ma'tam my colleagues often ask me why we hit ourselves when in Qur'an its written not hit urself. Pls explain |
Salam Alaikum sister,
Well in this case, ask ur colleagues why do the cry and mourn or do "3aza" (matam) when someone in their families die, thats not mentioned in quran either. In our case our imams are more beloved to us than our family, another thing sister, in pakistan there is a majority of sunni brothers people who does matam on days of Ashura, not only that they evne attend majalis. Well Matam & 3aza has nothing to do with Quran, its just expressing our emotions.
M3a Salama.
I'm thankful to all of you for your replies
I would rather think of it as a commemoration of the Battle of Karbala. The mourning and gathering in matam to listen to lectures and to listen to poetry and azza brings a sense of community and oneness and brother hood.
Unfourtunately it's become a bit of a show these days, but still has those underlying qualities as its basis. I personally believe that one shouldn't hit oneself too hard but take it as an act of symbolic meaning and of mourning. Of course harming oneself such as hitting with swords or chains is self flagellation and I firmly stick by the Scholars and Maraji's ruling that its haram.
The most important thing I think are the lectures which one can use to learn from and be enlightened with.
Unfourtunately it's become a bit of a show these days, but still has those underlying qualities as its basis. I personally believe that one shouldn't hit oneself too hard but take it as an act of symbolic meaning and of mourning. Of course harming oneself such as hitting with swords or chains is self flagellation and I firmly stick by the Scholars and Maraji's ruling that its haram.
The most important thing I think are the lectures which one can use to learn from and be enlightened with.
Bismillah
Salaam
Jus wanted to say that i truly agree with you Bro Bu_Mahdi.....
ALLAH KNOWETH ALL THINGS
Khudahaafiz
Salaam
Jus wanted to say that i truly agree with you Bro Bu_Mahdi.....
ALLAH KNOWETH ALL THINGS
Khudahaafiz
QUOTE(BuMahdi @ Oct 28 2004, 12:12 AM) 
Unfourtunately it's become a bit of a show these days, but still has those underlying qualities as its basis.
Salamun alaykum
I also agree that it has become a bit of a show these days, and i dont understand y.... does anybody know y? hope that isnt a silly question, its just that its a shame that it has become that way.
i was once told that each tear that drops from our eyes in ashura, is a closer step to the 'straight path', and you cant fake or put on a tear, tears come from pure intentions and feelings of hurt, now surely thats the same for ma'tam? each one cannot but be genuine. am i wrong in this?
Feaman allah
Alaa
Salaam Alaikum
Unfourtunately it's become a bit of a show these days, but still has those underlying qualities as its basis.
Salamun alaykum
I also agree that it has become a bit of a show these days, and i dont understand y.... does anybody know y? hope that isnt a silly question, its just that its a shame that it has become that way.
Well, what guys dont want to look big, tough, and religious at the same time these days? ...lol people, especially the youth, have forgotten the reason why we're on this earth..They're now driven by materialism, and looking 'good' infront of others.
Well, it is possible to make oneself cry...But Allah (swt) knows each and every person's intention..
anyhow, for the original post...our MSA(muslim student association) girls have a yahoo group, and we often email each other informative things...and well, on Ashura, or a few days before it, one girl emails everyone telling them to fast because its such a wonderful day, etc etc..and I emailed them all back, just giving them a lil information about what happened on Ashura, at Kerabala..and I let them know that Shia's dont fast...Well, that one email went into a long email-debate..between me, and that girl (shes sorta wahabbi lol) that emailed everyone telling them to fast...anyhow, so at one point, she whips out the "you don't fast on ashura, but you guys hurt or injure yourselves!!!" argument..which, is pretty lame, considering we werent even talking about that...but anyway, I replied to her telling her that was uncalled for, and that she should look into her own hadith books, because even Aisha did 'matam' whenever the Prophet (sas) died. So theres obviously nothing wrong with us doing matam on the day that Imam Hussain (as) and his family died for ISLAM... Here are the hadiths I showed the girl:
Abbas Narrates:
"I heard Ayesha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".
Reference: al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):
"Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women".
Reference: Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 5, page 420
---Also, theres Hazrat Owais al-Qarni, who we all know had so much love for the Prophet(sas)...When he heard that two teeth of the Prophet(sas)'s were broken (at the battle of Ohod)...he broke his own teeth...when the Prophet(sas) learned about this he said "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend." ('Seerate Halbia' vol II, page 295.)
Also, the renowned Sunni Scholar Shiekh Farid al Din Attaar in 'Tadhkhirathul Awliya' Urdu translation page 17 and 18 writes:
"Hadhrath Uways Qarni said to Hadhrath Umar Khattab: 'If you were true in friendship than why on the day when the holy teeth of the Prophet (s) were broken didn't you break your teeth in companionship? Because, it is a condition of companionship.' Then he showed his teeth all of which were broken and said 'I broke all of my teeth without seeing you (O Prophet) and in the state of Ghaybah in your companionship. I had broken one tooth but couldn't get satisfaction so kept on breaking them one by one until I had broken them all '
^I hope those help
...You may want to let them know why we mourn so much on that day, or, that whole month of Muharram even..THen they may realize why we are in so much grief that we are 'hitting ourselves'...Do they realize that if it werent for Imam Hussain (as) and his family, that the Islam we have today wouldn't even be? Do they realize that Islam would have bcome corrupt?
"If the religion of Muhammad(sas) was not to be amended without my bloodshed, come swords and slay me!" --Imam Hussain(AS)
..I love that quote, it shows how much Imam Hussain (as) loved Islam, loved Allah (swt), and his grandfather, Prophet Muhammad (sas) ...
w'salaams..
QUOTE(Alaa_razak @ Jun 5 2006, 04:05 PM)
QUOTE(BuMahdi @ Oct 28 2004, 12:12 AM)
Unfourtunately it's become a bit of a show these days, but still has those underlying qualities as its basis.
Salamun alaykum
I also agree that it has become a bit of a show these days, and i dont understand y.... does anybody know y? hope that isnt a silly question, its just that its a shame that it has become that way.
Well, what guys dont want to look big, tough, and religious at the same time these days? ...lol people, especially the youth, have forgotten the reason why we're on this earth..They're now driven by materialism, and looking 'good' infront of others.
QUOTE
i was once told that each tear that drops from our eyes in ashura, is a closer step to the 'straight path', and you cant fake or put on a tear, tears come from pure intentions and feelings of hurt, now surely thats the same for ma'tam? each one cannot but be genuine. am i wrong in this?
Well, it is possible to make oneself cry...But Allah (swt) knows each and every person's intention..
anyhow, for the original post...our MSA(muslim student association) girls have a yahoo group, and we often email each other informative things...and well, on Ashura, or a few days before it, one girl emails everyone telling them to fast because its such a wonderful day, etc etc..and I emailed them all back, just giving them a lil information about what happened on Ashura, at Kerabala..and I let them know that Shia's dont fast...Well, that one email went into a long email-debate..between me, and that girl (shes sorta wahabbi lol) that emailed everyone telling them to fast...anyhow, so at one point, she whips out the "you don't fast on ashura, but you guys hurt or injure yourselves!!!" argument..which, is pretty lame, considering we werent even talking about that...but anyway, I replied to her telling her that was uncalled for, and that she should look into her own hadith books, because even Aisha did 'matam' whenever the Prophet (sas) died. So theres obviously nothing wrong with us doing matam on the day that Imam Hussain (as) and his family died for ISLAM... Here are the hadiths I showed the girl:
Abbas Narrates:
"I heard Ayesha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".
Reference: al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):
"Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women".
Reference: Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 5, page 420
---Also, theres Hazrat Owais al-Qarni, who we all know had so much love for the Prophet(sas)...When he heard that two teeth of the Prophet(sas)'s were broken (at the battle of Ohod)...he broke his own teeth...when the Prophet(sas) learned about this he said "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend." ('Seerate Halbia' vol II, page 295.)
Also, the renowned Sunni Scholar Shiekh Farid al Din Attaar in 'Tadhkhirathul Awliya' Urdu translation page 17 and 18 writes:
"Hadhrath Uways Qarni said to Hadhrath Umar Khattab: 'If you were true in friendship than why on the day when the holy teeth of the Prophet (s) were broken didn't you break your teeth in companionship? Because, it is a condition of companionship.' Then he showed his teeth all of which were broken and said 'I broke all of my teeth without seeing you (O Prophet) and in the state of Ghaybah in your companionship. I had broken one tooth but couldn't get satisfaction so kept on breaking them one by one until I had broken them all '
^I hope those help
...You may want to let them know why we mourn so much on that day, or, that whole month of Muharram even..THen they may realize why we are in so much grief that we are 'hitting ourselves'...Do they realize that if it werent for Imam Hussain (as) and his family, that the Islam we have today wouldn't even be? Do they realize that Islam would have bcome corrupt?"If the religion of Muhammad(sas) was not to be amended without my bloodshed, come swords and slay me!" --Imam Hussain(AS)
..I love that quote, it shows how much Imam Hussain (as) loved Islam, loved Allah (swt), and his grandfather, Prophet Muhammad (sas) ...
w'salaams..
Sister Bism'Allah,
Thank you for your elaborate post. Alhamd'Allah we have youth who are standing up for their faith and will not be silent by their accusations against us.
Barka Allah feeka.
Ma Salamah
Thank you for your elaborate post. Alhamd'Allah we have youth who are standing up for their faith and will not be silent by their accusations against us.
Barka Allah feeka.
Ma Salamah
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